Update!

Discuss the events going on in the world of RP here.
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Kalmega
Posts: 556
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 21:06

Update!

Post by Kalmega » 03 Feb 2011, 01:11

Just wanted to touch base with you guys and let you know what I'm working on. If you have any questions or comments about the following list, leave them here so they can be open for group discussion!

1. Slight rule modifications:
Primarily concerning the destruction components of powers. I want massive damage, mainly destruction of planets and such, to be limited to a T6 and T7 character. I want those tiers to be special for those who achieve it and I think this is the best way to do it. Yes, they are still the strongest, and that is special in its own right, but blowing up a planet is about the biggest thing you can do around here. Here is an example of how that will work:

Let's say Raburn is a T4. His transformation gives him a boost to his blast tier and he charges the blast, so as far as numbers go, he has a T6 blast. Because he is not T6, the blasts destruction component will only be a T5, but for purposes of damage and beam battles, the blast still retains its T6 strength. So it still encourages you guys to power up your abilities for maximum strength, it will just hold you back from destroying peoples' planets.

2. Power Templates:
I'm currently working on TK (Telekineses), Illusion, and Super Speed templates. Some loose form of templates already exist for these, but I want to steamline some and make them available for other people. Also, I want to balance them so that they aren't overpowered, but at the same time make them scale in a way that will make them attractive for those who want to use them down the road. When I have more I'll let you know.

3. Story Arcs:
I'm currently working on two Story Arcs for you guys. One will primarily be for our big boys, though lower Tiers will still have something to do, and the other will be formatted that all teirs will be able to participate. More on these later!

4. With all the attention HFIL has been getting, I'm going to work on a more detailed template people can use to go exploring around there. This applies to Afterlife and Hell as well. Heaven is a retirement home and doesn't get shit!



That's a small list! More will be posted after I churn all this out! This will NOT be a a New Age, just tweaks to this one.

Happy RPing,

~Saeji

Stoupes
Posts: 277
Joined: 06 Apr 2009, 20:24

Re: Update!

Post by Stoupes » 03 Feb 2011, 04:31

I was a little hurt when we talked about it.. just because I want to start blowing up random ass Planets as i've stated but as long as these blasts and cutting abilities still translate against PC's then it works out.

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Update!

Post by Nygmus » 03 Feb 2011, 22:47

Something more or less similar to this was on my list of stuff to do.

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Update!

Post by Nygmus » 04 Feb 2011, 13:38

Since Kalmega didn't really touch on much of it in his post, and since this IS something that was on the plate when I was there (my idea, originally, was to set up a "destruction table", and use the Damage Rating of each attack to determine how much it could destroy; the highest point on the table was like a t7 with a t7 blast and a transformation, and planetary devastation was on that end of the scale.

From a game design standpoint, RP is very different from PVP. In RP, the object is *not* to "win", but to tell a story; whether you win or lose is really not the point, as long as the story is good.

Some folks (Raburn, I've seen some of this from you, for example) seem to want to approach it with a mindset more akin to PVP, where winning is more important, and where killing your opponent is seen as an appropriate end. (In RP, it's really not; it may be satisfying to you, but it tends to really feel shitty for someone to die, especially in a very imbalanced fight or in a really random way.)

By the same token, wrecking the RP world is also very negative in terms of game playability. Yes, blowing up the Earth would be fun for Raburn... but what about everyone else? That "everyone else" may not matter in PVP; they're not as strong as you, so they shouldn't really get a say. But, RP is more about the collective fun of everyone, and you simply can't go around pooping all over the environment just because you can.

Saeji is more against restrictive mechanics than I am. (obligatory OMG NYGMUS SO RESTRICTIVE comment here) But sometimes, mechanics that restrict the player in favor of greater game health are not necessarily a bad thing. I know it kind of sucks not being able to do as you like and wreck what you like, but I feel that when someone joins RP, there is a certain standard of conduct that needs to be adhered to, both to preserve the dramatic feel of certain events (environmental destruction, death) and to preserve the experience of all concerned. PVP-type players really need to leave behind the competitive, destructive mindset and learn to work toward the collective goal of a good story.

Really, the overall self-destructive tendencies a PVP mindset seems to bring with it seems to be one of the bigger issues we've had with this universe; it also seems to feed into the preponderance of evil characters (since evil roleplay characters tend to behave in the way a PVP-oriented player would expect). Combat is deadlier and less friendly, where in the old universe it happened all the time and was very rarely deadly (and much less serious; two guys would often just run into each other and have it out for the hell of it). I would honestly like to see a more cooperative atmosphere on DBI in the future, and have RP be less about who wins and who loses. There's a reason the Telarr/Dumastin fight was one of my favorites in a long time.

-Nygmus

Kalmega
Posts: 556
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 21:06

Re: Update!

Post by Kalmega » 04 Feb 2011, 15:36

Firstly, don't underestimate my love for being restrictive. Many of you have seen the system I designed over at DBNU which is about as restrictive as you can get. The only reason it didn't come over here is because it's not the type of play style the players over here wanted, and it's essentially my job to make players happy while at the same time keeping things within the realm of reason. I like to think I do a pretty good job about that.

Secondly, I think you've overstepped yourself in defining what RP is to everyone. Your definition is fine for you, but you do not speak for the entire RP community nor are you an RP Admin anymore. RolePlay is whatever the playerbase wants it to be. As a Moderator, I try and facilitate the general feeling of the community and funnel that into progress for them. Right now, there is a definite PvP feel to the RP aspect of the game... AND I WELCOME IT. Not because that's how I want it to be, but I see the bubblings of some very fun arcs coming out of this, and these arcs are totally being run by players. It gives players a sense of ownership in the RPverse they stomp around in when they can see their actions changing things. It build RP rivalries and alliances, which will always evolve into something more. In a year, maybe all this will break down and it will be about just telling stories again, but for now, I see all these stories coming together to lead to some major ass-kickery; something I know many are looking forward to. Myself included.

I'm also going to respond to your other forum post about min/maxing here, since I think it's something that should be involved in this discussion.

A player's skill set defines the character just as much as his story does. What he/she strives to do shows their ultimate goals both as a character and a player. I think it's unfair for you to use Dumastin's skillset as a template given that you have that player on target to be a "Jack of all trades and a master of none," which essentially sums up Dumastin. Kalmega's skillset is one of destructive power, given that he wants to be on top. Some powers are straight forward and some are flexible, just like characters.

Speaking in Regimes, I want my time spent as Head RP Admin to be on where players get to do what they want to do as long as it's within reason. If it's not, most players here know that I will work with them to make what they want reasonable and do my best to keep the original idea intact. I don't like saying "no" and "you can't do that," though those statements are essentially unavoidable as an admin.

I encourage open discussion like this as I think it both helps our RPverse grow as well as show what we all expect from each other and the Admins. Keep it up.

~Saeji

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Update!

Post by Nygmus » 04 Feb 2011, 15:57

I once heard someone talk about how developers and designers are bad at their own game, because they tend to play the game in the way it's intended to work (where a competitive player will play the game as it actually works, including using mechanics in ways that weren't exactly intended).

I used Dum's skillset as an example because his is, in fact, closer to how I would have hoped the system would be used. I'm not complaining that focusing around one type of skill is a bad thing; the problem comes when you stack bonus on bonus on bonus and wind up with a power well in excess of your tier rating.

When I speak about RP communities, I tend to be talking more from prewipe experience than anything else.

ikenbon
Posts: 785
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 00:21

Re: Update!

Post by ikenbon » 04 Feb 2011, 16:18

Honestly, I agree With Dumastin for the most part.

The well-being of RP is more important to me as an admin (and a player) than whether or not player X has the mechanical ability to blow up Earth and every other major planet in the universe.

The object is not to "win" but to "tell a story." No amount of mechanics or RPP or ass-kicking story lines down the pipeline is ever going to change that. I agree with Dumastin that wrecking the roleplay world is almost completely negative. In fact even the simple "known" ability to do so in an OOC form causes immediate reaction. People leave the planet. They stop roleplaying with certain characters OR quite simply, they roleplay differently around those characters to avoid getting blasted in the face: all of which are a breakdown of the system. Now there's really no fault here to the system or the admins but like what Dumastin said, the "mindset" of certain players.

But, I have more or less given up on this. As Rizion would say, "Doom happens." The PvP "mindset" is not going to change. The people who destroy and breakdown the system by grinding their way to the top and maximizing themselves to be as dangerous, incoherent and destructive as possible will always be a threat both in real life and here on the CHAT channel, and there is no "fair" way to regulate them from a rules standpoint.

What I foresee with the knowledge I have of upcoming events is that the RP community will split into deeper groups, going very sepperate ways, with only minor clashes inbetween (probably "forced" clashes at best). The clashes that DO happen will be between characters who in an OOC sense, have very little to fear. Then there will come a point where a few major powers battle and at last there are some real losses on one side or the other; but unfortunately that's exactly what it will become, "losses." A key player dying is a major loss in community that is already sort of starving for attention.

Don't get me wrong though. Destruction and ruin can be very story compelling. Most of our best story arcs have been during a time of war or crisis. It really just depends on what that crisis entails. Normally its a situation where the community as a whole has to battle a larger enemy, but when it comes to player versus player, the battles (actual life or death) tend to divide us and bring little to the table for doing so.

That doesn't mean it always has to be that way, but that's what I've seen in the past.

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Update!

Post by Nygmus » 04 Feb 2011, 16:51

Going along with what Luke said: Players forming into powerful groups is not necessarily a good thing when the system doesn't really handle group combat that well (and this is a failing, not of the system itself, but of the CHAT channel in general).

It makes people less likely to engage members of that group (the fallout from pissing off one guy IRP is magnified when he has a cadre of like-minded asswuppers to hunt you down).

And at some point, you do take OOC considerations into account. The best of us do, even though you're not "supposed" to. It's a failing of being human.


I cringe inwardly every single time I see someone take an action (or not take it) because of OOC considerations. "Oh, wait to go there, you're not high-enough tier." "Oh, you should probably stay out of this RP, you're too low-tier." That's not the mindset we should be fostering, and at some point that goes past restriction/nonrestriction and comes to player education. Metagaming should be discouraged both mechanically and through the intent and action of the active staff, and that's all there is to it. Not restricting IC player actions is one thing, but it is poisonous when metagaming is allowed to take even as firm a root as it has in our RP.

BenRGamer
Posts: 313
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 12:52

Re: Update!

Post by BenRGamer » 04 Feb 2011, 17:57

If it was me, I'd limit planet destruction to the biggest of the big moves--beyond ordinary Tier 6/7 attacks.

Think Tier 7 + Transform + Natural Talent (to make it the equivalent of a non-existant Tier 8). It'd have to be pretty much the strongest move in the game.

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