Damage Calculations

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Kalmega
Posts: 556
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 21:06

Damage Calculations

Post by Kalmega » 18 Jan 2011, 23:09

There was a discussion between some of the RPing Immortals some time back concerning how one would discern damages concerning Tiered fighters throwing differing tiered attacks. For example:

A Tier 5 fighter throws a Tier 2 Blast at a Tier Six fighter. What happens?

It was a discussion that never really got anywhere for one reason or another, but it is something that I gave some thought to while I was away. Over the past week or so I've been actively working on something to accommodate the subject matter and I've passed it along to a few players and immortals to take a look at. It's received mixed reviews, not because of the calculation values, but how it could impact RP here on DBI, so I wanted to open the topic for discussion before even considering putting it up for eyes to see. There are the vocal points that I would like discussed here. The points will be made to accurately depict the responses certain people gave me; they are not my own.

1. It's a thought out reference to deal with varying damage. Something people can refer to.
2. It's a bad idea. It would damage free flowing RP on the MUD.
3. The need is understandable, but the danger is that it could become a number crunch that would be exploitable.

My intention of the calculation sheet was to put it on an "Extras" section of the RP wiki. Not only this, but I intended to put a disclaimed stating that it is not a "rule" by any means, but more of a reference sheet if people wanted to at least have an idea of how all this worked. Basically it was supplemental information for those that wanted it. Now, the above statements are valid ones and come from people who have a time investment IRP on the MUD. It's why they are up there. Given all this information, I would like to open a respectful dialog about this subject. We all know what "respectful" means, so don't make me smite anyone.

~Saeji

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Damage Calculations

Post by Nygmus » 18 Jan 2011, 23:37

I honestly cannot believe this shit. This is the worst shit ever to hit DBI. The fact that you would even contemplate such a thing is absolutely irresponsible. Worst RP admin ever.

*flies into a sun*

Nygmus
Posts: 706
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 01:18

Re: Damage Calculations

Post by Nygmus » 18 Jan 2011, 23:41

In all honesty.

I'm not entirely positive that the system as I recall us discussing it was especially needed, but I'm pretty neutral on the entire thing.

Whether we have an issue with people just shrugging off attacks that nominally should injure them... either way, a slightly more important issue to address is the unfortunate case when people just don't get hit. People, especially... some people... tend to just avoid attacks that should be damaging, and I don't see laying out ground rules about how damaging something would be helping that.

Kenoya
Posts: 149
Joined: 20 Feb 2009, 00:00

Re: Damage Calculations

Post by Kenoya » 19 Jan 2011, 02:02

I support the idea of having a damage system and I'm willing to be crucified by throwing an idea out there. I think boss man has something in mind but I haven't seen it yet. So if I'm stealing ideas slap me and lemme know.

Tier of warrior + Tier of attack = Points of Damage. My idea, make 1/2 your reds rounded up to the nearest whole number your "max hp" and keep the system on the wiki. Example: Bobby is a tier1 warrior with 30 red. His max hp is 15. He is hit by Sara's, a tier1 warrior, attack that is also tier1. It deals two damage. We could even have a "critical hit" system. Like if you catch someone by surprise with an attack it would do a bit more damage. 2x might be too much so perhaps Damage x 1.5 = Critical Hit damage. Basic melee damage, like landing a good combo on someone, would be equal to your tier. Tier5 does 5 points of damage with regular melee hits from a round.

My reasons for why we need this system are as follows.

1.) Without a set damage system whats the point of leveling up an attack? Sure its "stronger" but what does that mean exactly. Without something hard to back it up whats stopping people (some already do this) from just keeping an attack at first level and making it out to be more epic as time goes on without actually spending the red to actually boost it.

2.) God moding isn't a problem really, mainly because no one in a while has actually had a fight on the line that means something. Most the time its just talked out and people come to a reasonable agreement as to how it should turn out. However say we come to a point where "the fate of the world is on the line" or "someone's life is on the line". Some people might try to find reason as to why they aren't hurt as badly as they should be or others might try and say that said person should of died long ago when they shouldn't of. How it currently stands it's all subjective.

Now before I get tons of "OMG THATS SO MUCH MATH IT WILL RUIN RP!!!" let me explain. I suggest this be the "damage rules" however we only use it when things are debated sort of like what boss man said in his last paragraph. Like if 2 people are fighting and both of them honestly think they are > than the other it would be the rule to consult. So if an epic match is about to happen where players/immortals are intent on taking a life be it over an event or some major shit going down irp we would have something to keep people from abusing the damage they've taken to avoid death.

Most people can come to an agreement before the fight is really even over. Hell I've set up rps before where I've said "We fight, you will ultimately beat me and we end it with us doing whatever. If something happens along the way we'll tweek it as we go." 99% of all rp ends up like this, for enjoyment. However sometimes RAAAAAAGE happens and imms got to get pulled in over some stupid drama. Then imms look like we play favorites when we pick someone without any real basis as to why we think someone won or is winning from simply stating "Well his rpping style was better."

So ultimately my answer for this is 1. It's a thought out reference to deal with varying damage. Something people can refer to.

I'm not saying go with my version of it, just saying something like this would be nice to have in case drama comes up and it can't be settled without something to rely on other than "so n so rpp'ed was better". We got a stat system lets use it. Thats my two cents....Now I expect to be blammed (newground term) like no other.

And again, if I'm stealing ideas you got already Saeji slap me.

Kalmega
Posts: 556
Joined: 23 Jan 2009, 21:06

Re: Damage Calculations

Post by Kalmega » 20 Jan 2011, 14:46

So, after discussing this with multiple RPer and Admins, it looks like this is going in.

The general thought process of those I asked leaned more towards full support, but there was always a "but" in the statement, which I was actually going for since that kind of feedback yields the most insight for revision. The main concerned seemed to be worry over exploitation of the system in order for someone to constantly have the upper hand. Now, when you install something new like this, there is always a need for number tweaking after its application. That's just how balancing something like this, or anything that involves numbers, works. Ryune and I probably spent 45 minutes day before yesterday going over scenarios to make sure all this works, but I guarantee something will come up that we didn't think of. So consider this, as all RP rules, something that will evolve with time.

Now, concerning the application of this system itself:

This faux spreadsheet is something to fall back on when a clear victor cannot be agreed upon. One of the system's critics claimed that rules like these aren't currently needed, and I'll agree with that, but rule making isn't something you do just when you see something go wrong; it is also something you need to do in preparation of what could happen. This is the latter. On a side note, something like this would probably have been great to have during the Grey Arc, given the argument that some people were having over a group battle. Just a reminder there.

This is by no means a rule meant for common usage. If you like it so much that you want to use it in ALL you RPs, wonderful! Just make sure your partner(s) want to as well. If they don't, just look at what you have and decide on your own. Personally, I think that is a better way to RP.

Lastly, but certainly at the very least, this is a way for players to resolve things without getting Admins involved. Not that we don't want to help out, but there have been numerous occasions where Admins have been accused of choosing a favorite or judging unfairly for reasons beyond RP, and this is a way to prevent that as well.

Just to reiterate:

1. This is NOT a hard rule.
2. This is NOT meant for use at all times.
3. This does NOT prevent an Admin from stepping in.
4. This IS meant to make RPing easier when conflict between RP players, OOCly, arises.

I'll edit this if need be. Be on the lookout for the sheet on the Wiki in a few days. I'll post a not about it on the RP Board when it does.

~Saeji

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